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Blood Royal
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Nov - 17:30 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

I posted this in response to a question on the Paradox forums:

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Re: Half-Elves, according to Tolkien lore, there was indeed a choice, but this was for the most famous of the half-elves. I'm not sure if for example the half-elf that was Imrahil's ancestor (Silvan/Numenorean hybrid, or Sindar/Numenorean?) had that choice. Earendil for example was asked directly by the Valar, and so was Elwing. Elros and Elrond were probably also asked. In the 4th Age, with the Valar being so distant, it might be best if we simply make the half-elven trait automatically available to all characters born of an elf and a man. Whether or not you were considered an elf or a man would then depend on your religion (which in our mod is closely tied to culture) - ie, if the half-elven child is moriquendi, it would tend to marry other elves (and the children would have a 75% chance of becoming full elves and 25% chance of becoming half-elves), and if it is religion_dunedain, it would tend to marry other dunedain and have a 75% chance of becoming simply men - perhaps with the "elven ancestor" trait which I also want to make.
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What do you guys think?

The problem is that if it's a 50-50 choice or chance, we could frequently end up with a culture_dunedain +trait elf immortal ruler of Gondor if the Aragorn/Arwen union happens and Aragorn takes the throne.
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Nov - 17:30 (2013)    Post subject: Publicité

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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Nov - 19:23 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

Or... Only give an half-elf trait to the child, with stronger life, and a elf_blood for his heirs, with a lower stronger life ?
As the elves are leaving middle earth and the valar are not looking to this place, maybe all the children will be from mankind, with some bonuses.
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Nov - 20:17 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. We can make the half-elven event so that it only happens in a human court, so that the child becomes human culture/religion with the trait. I'll code it to be theoretically possible however for a Elf/Moriquendi child to have the trait as well if some player cheats with marry_anyone in the console, but in that case the child will get the elf trait *and* the half-elf trait on top of it (just for flavor, the health bonuses won't add anything to the immortaility trait after all).

And then I'll make the Elven Ancestor/Elf_Blood trait as well. Should be fun, and thankfully the Blood of Numenor inheritance event can be easily recycled for it Okay

What's our stand on half-dwarves? Weren't there some that came from the East in the battle of Minas Tirith... I remember reading about some weird easterlings/southrons who were short and stocky, and wielded axes? It's not something I think we need to include, but again, if someone manages to make it work somehow with a savegame edit or a console cheat... I see no problem being prepared for it!

Edit: Just read again what you wrote - so you would prefer if a noldor ruler married a human, and got a child with noldor culture and moriquendi religion, that they also only got the half-elf trait and not the immortal elf trait? That might be realistic as well, but then that half-elf will "pollute" the elven lines with his puny human blood since he/she will be able to marry other elves without problems. But yes, could be fun - I'm good with either option!
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Nov - 22:58 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

Half-dwarves are not Tolkien canon. You might be thinking of Half-trolls from Far Harad. Okay
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Blood Royal
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Nov - 23:02 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

Possibly Smile

I'll have to check the books again to be sure, but I think there was a line about some kind of enemy forces at the battle of Minas Tirith which were described as resembling dwarves... short, stocky, bearded, wielding axes. My LOTR trilogy book was kind of ruined from over-reading however and I don't think I have it anymore, so I could be wrong  Mr. Green

Maybe it's from the GoT mod, but there you could at least marry anyone that you had as a prisoner. So I just wanted to plan for the off-chance that someone captured a dwarven province, got a dwarf woman prisoner, and then married her despite the religious intermarriage incompatability. More like a "hey, that's fun that they included that" rather than a "We should have half-dwarven characters in our mod"!
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Nov - 08:06 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

Are there any objections to me making half-dwarves, and half-orc traits?

We should do our best to make sure that it never happens and certainly not encourage it in any way, but it's really easy to script inheritance events/add traits and if players are going to go to great lengths to find work-arounds via console cheats or whatever other loopholes they can find, we may as well let them - or? Rolling Eyes

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Half-orc

Half-dwarves (or something similar, from the Return of the King? :

"The new host that we had tidings of has come first, from over the River by way of Andros, it is said. They are strong: battalions of Orcs of the Eye, and countless companies of Men of a new sort that we have not met before. Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come, we deem."

There's also half-trolls, but that's almost certainly from some kind of sorcery, like the Uruk-Hai.

Edit: I also just realized - can't you marry any courtier in your court, even of different religion? We need to make events so that melkor_group courtiers at least do not stick around in hostile courts, and vice versa.

Re-Edit: Oh wait, seems I was wrong! Trying to test my half-elf event... Thranduil took over a human province, tried to get Legolas to marry a human, but even when imprisoned she wouldn't marry an infidel  Twisted Evil
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Nov - 09:50 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

I'm not sure for half_dwarves. The lines from the Return of the King sounds more like savages men, like druedain/Hillmen for me!


Ok for half-elves, and half-orcs by the way!
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Nov - 10:10 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

Okay

I'll also try and think of ways to prevent weird marriages... a loop hole currently is that if you imprison a human vassal, you can demand that he converts to moriquendi faith, and then most of his court follows. That's what I had to do to test the half-elf trait.  It's not a problem between elves/humans really, but we certainly don't want people marrying ents or trolls Shocked
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Nov - 10:17 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

Yeah, it could be fix by modding the on_action_events file in the events folder! You maybe should delete this possibility !
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Nov - 10:23 (2013)    Post subject: Half-Elves Reply with quote

I'll take a look at it  Okay

How about we leave it in for elves, however? I doubt it's something the AI will do, but it could be a fun option for humans who want to have lots of half-elf characters?
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