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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Sun 4 May - 10:41 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Hello guys!

I want to add some holy sites to the mod. For exemple : Erebor/Moria/Gundabad for the Dwarves, Caras Galadhon/Rivendell/Mithlond/ost-in-Edhil/Elostirion for the Elves, Minas Tirith/Amon Sûl/Minas Ithil/Osgiliath/Fornost/Annuminas for the numenorean, ...

What do you say?

For exemple, for dwarves :


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PostPosted: Sun 4 May - 10:41 (2014)    Post subject: Publicité

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Redit
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PostPosted: Sun 4 May - 13:18 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

I like this, but we can have better name than Dwarves Cult
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Sun 4 May - 13:22 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Yeah, I let you use another name ^^

The goal is to make specific casus belli for some holy sites by cultures. So, Dwarves will have a CB on Moria/Erebor/Gundabad if it's not holded by a Dwarf for exemple. Same thing, Numenoreans will have specific CBs for their holy sites, and maybe even Orcs for Gundabad/Goblin-town/Moria (so we'll have several fights between dwarves and orcs for these lands?). And if i can hold it, i'll try to make possible to join these "holy wars" by all the religious members, so the King of Durin's Folk will be able to be helped by the other clans of dwarves!
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Chris93
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 10:06 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Redit wrote:
I like this, but we can have better name than Dwarves Cult










I think we should discuss about the entire religion concept in our mod. I don't think that Nukumnehtar thought about religions/cults when he started adding the religion part. If you look at them, you'll surely notice that those are not religions or cults, but races/cultural groups. We have something like Dunedain. Rhovanion, Haradrim, Easterlings, Angmarim and Haldadian in the religion section that sound more like cultures/races to me. I think that considering the "religion" as "race" and "culture" as "culture" would feet better with our mod, there aren't real religions in Middle Earth, and if Tolkien talked about them, didn't say much. Finally, there are not churches, not religious orders, not religious heads, the concepts of holy/religious war and conversions are useless in Middle Earth and the only use of a cult we have in the mod is the "Sauron Cult" for Sauron and the evil side rulers. From this point of view, the "holy sites" could be considered as "Symbolic Locations" of some races, Erebor/Moria/Gundabad for the Dwarves, Caras Galadhon/Rivendell/Mithlond/ost-in-Edhil/Elostirion for the Elves etc...
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 10:27 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

I agree with you Chris, the "holy sites", were, in my mind, not more than "symbolic locations" like you said Wink
And yeah, when we added the religions, it was more cultural group/races than religions, so maybe we can change "Dwarves Cult" to only "Dwarves"?
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Chris93
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 10:30 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Lonhaldar wrote:
I agree with you Chris, the "holy sites", were, in my mind, not more than "symbolic locations" like you said Wink
And yeah, when we added the religions, it was more cultural group/races than religions, so maybe we can change "Dwarves Cult" to only "Dwarves"?


I'm planning a little cultures/religions section revamping. I'll show you my plans in some days i think  Okay
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 11:18 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Ok!
On my side i'm adding these holy sites to the landed_titles file, and i'll add some decisions to reconquers them! Okay
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 12:52 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

A little preview of the events for the Reconquest of Khazad-Dûm :



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Redit
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 14:48 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

I like Chris's idea. So we have something like this Culture Group Dwarf, Culture Longbeard, Race Dwarf? Only problem there is it says Dwarf 2-3 times and Longbeard once, as culture group and religion will be the same
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 15:02 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Well, that's how Nuku made the culture religion/system:
- Culture are ... Culture/Clans/Tribes (like Gondorian/Dunedain/Arnorian/Numenorean), with their own "racial"/"subracial" group.
In fact, the culture_group is the original cultural group of the culture, from which they are the descendants. It's the DNA culture
- Religions were changed to sort of "Cultural" thing. So, it's more like a geographical/sociological culture.

For exemple, the Black Numenoreans are in the cultural group of the Numenorean includinf also the dunedain or the gondorian, but they don't share the same "religion". Gondorian/arnorian/Dunedain are counted as "Dunedain", when Black Numenoreans get their own "religion".

So basically :
Culture = Origins/Genetic Cousins/...
Religion = "Style of Life"

So yeah, most of the time, the cultural group is the same than the religion showed ingame. But as we can't really see the cultural group of a character, it's not too redundant.
In game, a Dwarf will have for xemple : Culture = Longbeard / Religion = Dwarf (Khazâd?)
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Redit
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 15:28 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

So

Culture: Dwarf (unseen) > Longbeard
Race: Dwarf

I prefer to use original language names for Race as you suggested, e.g. Khazad, Noldorin etc (rather than westron)


Last edited by Redit on Mon 5 May - 15:31 (2014); edited 1 time in total
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 15:30 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Exactly Wink
And yeah, if we can use the good languages, like Khazad for Dwarves, it'll be more immersive i think!
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Redit
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 16:03 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Was just thinking, perhaps there should be events to rebuild Khazad-dûm like in Fornost/Annuminas, as by the time the dwarves reconquer it will be a ruin, full of the dead ancestors and crumbling stone. It should be very expensive/take a long time to return the mithril mines to operation and restore the great halls
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 16:13 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

yeah, i was thinking about it too, i think i'll make it soon Wink
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Chris93
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PostPosted: Mon 5 May - 16:22 (2014)    Post subject: Holy Sites Reply with quote

Redit wrote:
So

Culture: Dwarf (unseen) > Longbeard
Race: Dwarf

I prefer to use original language names for Race as you suggested, e.g. Khazad, Noldorin etc (rather than westron)






culture_group = Dwarf/Khazad
culture = Firebeard
religion_group = Dwarf/Khazad
religion = Dwarf/Khazad


So, basically, you'll have this in game:


Culture: Firebeard
Race: Dwarf


Then we can decide whether use the Westron term or the original one (I agree with Redit concerning the use of the original one)
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