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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Jul - 02:39 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

- We should disable religious and cultural conversion for Mountains and Wilderness provinces
   -> I was colonizing Mount Gram when my Loremaster informs me that he successfully converted the province to the Orc religion
   -> Since colonization requires that either culture or religion be Wilderness and the new Mountains province keep Wilderness as its religion, colonization got screwed

- Gundabad attacked Angmar (still ruled by the Witch-King) to conquer one province bordering Mount Gundabad

(Question: The Fall of Arnor start date corresponds to exactly what year of the Third Age?)

- Angmar gets constantly pummeled by Arthedain
   -> The lands of Angmar offer too few levies (around 4-5k)
   -> The Legions of Carn-Dûm event only fires for the initial scripted wars, meaning that after that, it's open hunting season against nasty, weak Angmar
      * Because the AI rightly recognizes Angmar's inability to defend itself properly

- Cardolan and Rhudaur are too stable
   -> Both their kings have the Heir of Isildur trait, which is lore-innacurate and gives them a huge (and undeserved) vassal bonus
   -> Do you think that the King of Rhudaur should have the Blood of Númenor trait?
   -> Ulfang's rebellion is doomed to fail without the intervention of the Witch-King, and even then success is not guaranteed
      * Ulfang's rebellion has too few troops to even defeat the King of Rhudaur
      * Maybe there should be other hill chiefs that join Ulfang and his rebellion

- The Annexation of Rhudaur event-chain is very prone to bugs due to unforeseen war declarations
   -> Once my intervention in Ulfang's rebellion fail and Rhudaur remained whole, I waited for awhile and then declared war for Rhudaur northernmost duchy
   -> Nevertheless, the events that declare that say it is Angmar's time to annex Rhudaur (since Ulfang failed...) fired mid-war, giving me the 30k event troops
   -> I won the war, but since the wargoal was a single duchy and the event didn't manage to change that, that was all I got
   -> Afterwards, even though I didn't own Rhudaur, the events never fired again
   -> I managed to exploit the event troops to conquer a duchy from Arthedain
      * I declared war on Arthedain while I was still at war with Rhudaur, then peaced out with Rhudaur and used the event troops to fight Arthedain
      * If I was in full-on cheesy-mode (like some of our players may be), I could have stretched the war with Arthedain till the truce with Rhudaur ended and then declare war upon Rhudaur once more, then repeat against Arthedain, and repeat all that until all of Arnor was mine.

- As Gundabad, I fought with Durin's Folk in a Prepared Invasion against the Grey Mountains
   -> Really tough war. I would have probably lost, if not for...
   -> ... Dunland's Invasion of the Misty Mountains. It failed, but it definitively helped me.
      * We should disable Invasions against mountain regions unless you're Orc, Dwarf, Troll, Dragon, Nazgul or Sauron himself, no?

- AI Gundabad happily jumps on Wilderness and Mountain provinces
   -> However, no colonizing them...

- Some provinces in the kingdoms of Gundabad and the Grey Mountains and within mountains allow marching through the mountain walls to the outside, without the indication on map that such passage exists
   -> WAD or bug with provinces file?

This is it (for now...) Razz
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul - 15:30 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

I'll probably post another detailed analysis but in the mean time I'll present the main issues...

The Fall of Arnor bookmark is terribly imbalanced. I mean, it is actually a struggle to roleplay. However, the reasons for this are not limited to the bookmark itself...

The main issue, I think, is the lack of buildings in province history. That means that, when balancing gameplay, what is actually tweaked is the number of holdings. That may solve the initial problem, but will unbalance a number of other scenarios.

Therefore, I think it is a big priority to revamp the buildings list and then update the province history. Of course, updating province history now before revamping building would be a arduous and ultimately pointless chore...

P.S.: Messing with the DEFINES and Static Modifiers file is also needed, I think. Does anyone oppose to this?
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul - 15:51 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

I agree with you, we needs to work on buildings. The vanilla ones aren't good for the mod, and we needs more cultural specific ones. 


If you want to look at the Static Modifiers, it's good for me. just try to keep a ratio of 1 man of Numenor against 4-5 orcs i think, at least.  Okay
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul - 17:19 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

No worries, it's not what I want to change xD
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul - 17:23 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

Ok, but yeah, we can have a look at it, and try to improve all this stuff. On my side, i'm adding more flavour and more immersion, and with your work on balance, i think we'll have something good Smile

Don't hesitate to comment the events i made by the way, it'll help me to improve them  Okay
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul - 18:59 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

I've been checking your threads. I haven't had much time to post, though... xD

Also, do you think you can review the triggers for your event-chains about Angmar? To make sure they don't fire in awkward moments or that they do fire afterwards...

A at_peace = yes would do wonders. Also, a disable_casus_belli flag for the duration of an event-war to prevent the abuse of event-troops...
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Sat 9 Aug - 21:21 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

I discovered what caused those silly initial rebellions in Angmar a while ago, but I forgot to mention it...

It appears that the Witch-King starts with a much smaller demesne than he's able to rule, making him revoke some of his vassals' titles. One of those is the Duke of Nan Angmar, the most powerful of his vassals. That one can levy roughly half of Angmar's levies, which gives a reasonable chance to defeat the Witch-King once in awhile.

Solution nº1: give the Witch-King all the demesne he can handle.

Solution nº2: remove the Duke of Nan Angmar altogether. The Witch-King doesn't really need Duke-tier vassals. He can then revoke all the county-titles that he desires.

Solution nº3: both of the above (my favorite)


Suggestion: the region you could call Middle Angmar is wilderness. I have no idea if there's lore backing that up or if it's just an oversight. In case it is an oversight, I suggest making that region Angmarim and its own duchy.
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Aug - 14:54 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

We should try the solution N°1 first, and see if it works better. I like the idea to have Warlords Orcs in Angmar Kingdom, and the duchy level can simulate them maybe. But if we needs to remove the nan anrmar one, that's not a problem for me!
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Aug - 15:10 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

I also like the idea. The problem is that he is the only one. If you added 1 or 2 more duke-tier titles, it would be better.

As it stands now, you'll have the Ducky of Carn Dûm belonging to the Witch-King, another for the Orc Warlord and the last one to the Hillmen Chief. It seems too few vassals to simulate the amalgamation of tribes that is Angmar...


P.S.: What about that Wilderness in Angmar?
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Aug - 15:13 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

Yeah, we should maybe add one more in Nan Angmar maybe, with some Orcs again. Or add Gundabad as vassals?
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Aug - 15:35 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

I thought about Gundabad as vassals of Angmar some months ago, but decided against it. Afterall, Gundabad was doing its own thing at time: colonizing the Misty Mountains and raiding/conquering the Grey Mountain.

Splitting Nan Angmar is fine by me (currently it is a really big ducky with ~6 provinces).
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Aug - 09:05 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

It seems that after 130-140-150 years ingame, that the save become corrupted, so players aren't able to play anymore after mostly 150  years. I don't know where came the bug, do you have some suggestions?
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Wed 13 Aug - 09:33 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

We should try to understand better why the save become corrupted :
- if it is only due to the mod or if i has already happened in any way in other mods.
- if it is only in MEP mod, what causes it ; and then maybe we can find a solution.

I can go back to the saves I gave you and try to find exactly when the bug happened (with previous saves I mean), and then see we can see in other games if we find the same problem.
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Tue 2 Sep - 18:00 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

I would urge this earlier suggestions to be taken into account. I think gameplay for the earlier bookmark would really improve...

***

- Cardolan and Rhudaur are too stable
   -> Both their kings have the Heir of Isildur trait, which is lore-innacurate and gives them a huge (and undeserved) vassal bonus
   -> Do you think that the King of Rhudaur should have the Blood of Númenor trait?
   -> Ulfang's rebellion is doomed to fail without the intervention of the Witch-King, and even then success is not guaranteed
      * Ulfang's rebellion has too few troops to even defeat the King of Rhudaur
      * Maybe there should be other hill chiefs that join Ulfang and his rebellion

***

Also, the Witch-King has some traits (can't remember which...) that only give, among other things, +1 vassal opinion. I assume this is a typo and it should be +10 instead of +1 ?

Plus, some of Angmar's provinces remain Wilderness. Could you change them to Angmarim?
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Tue 2 Sep - 18:13 (2014)    Post subject: Middle Earth Project 0.3.1b - Feedback Thread Reply with quote

- The kings of Cardolan and Rhudaur are descendants of Isildur too, the kingdom of Arnor was broken for the three sons of the last King of arnor Wink- So yeah, for me, they needs both the heir of isildur trait AND the blood of Numenor one, especially for Cardolan. Rhudaur can have the lesser one, but i don't think so.
- Yeah, i'll add a more massive rebellion with more chiefs who'll follow Ulfang Wink For the other point, well, Angmar will always helps Ulfang normally, if ruled by AI.


Ok for the trait, will look at it!
And ok too for the provinces cultures, don't know which one, but i'll change that !
Thanks!
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