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Athoen
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul - 21:00 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

I am trying to have a global view of the work to do for buildings, so I have tried to check wich bonus should a culture group mostly use.

Here is some work (WIP of course), the bonuses are those given by buildings (if you know another one, please indicate it)
Each color shows a group that could share the same buildings (they use the same bonus so far). Additionnal data would indicate a specific unit for this culture among its group.

It is probably not perfect but there are 7 colors, so 7 set of buildings with specific bonus + specific cultural buildings.
Rohirrim might be an exception
Hobbits are not in the list yet, I do not consider it a priority

Feel free to make any comment or to propose buildings and/or cultural units. I would like to make at last one special building for each culture, (there are already more than that for some of them) but I think I will focus on the group culture buildings first.

Data in excell file (some comments in sheet 2+ are in french, but the summary is all in English on page 1
http://www.sendspace.com/file/77sx3o
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul - 21:00 (2014)    Post subject: Publicité

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jul - 21:10 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

What does FL mean in the excel?
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul - 02:19 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

Fort level, but as I say, pages 2+ are like scrap paper with notes...

Main data is on first page (bonus)

-obsolete data-


Last edited by Athoen on Sat 2 Aug - 12:32 (2014); edited 1 time in total
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul - 18:23 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

horse_archers 200% means a combat bonus of 200%, right?
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul - 18:37 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

All those values applies to building only : it means the building will produce 200% of units compared to a culture with blank case (blank means unchanged value by the way)
For Rohhirim, that means they would only produce mounted units. It remains to see if it is really a good idea :p

For example, if a vanilla stable has a value of 50 for light cavalry, I will turn it into 100 for Rohirrim (200%) and to 25 for numenoreans (50%, but they would have more knights by the way), but each building would have the same cost to produce, so that cultures are more efficients with some buildings and less with others.
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul - 18:38 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

Why the Rohirrim should have 0% in archers/light infantry/pikemen? Even if they are mostly horsemen, they've got some strong forces like this, no?
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul - 18:48 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

I think it is because I am influenced by the movie where they only went on horse (except when besieged), because I chose to emphasize differences... and because I am relying on all of you to correct me Smile

I wonder if it would be an interresting game experience to play only with mounted units... may be not...
Rohirrim won't be the next step so there is plenty of time to change this. and give them some troups on foot.
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul - 18:57 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

I see. So instead of making one building for each culture, you make a generic building with different modifiers for each culture and rely on unique buildings for flavor.

Seems quite practical xD
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Nukumnehtar
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PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul - 21:06 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

Razz You might want to wait until the 3rd Hobbit movie before giving the Dwarves no cavalry. If you watch the trailer you can catch a glimpse of Dwarves riding what seems to be very large rams, similar to how some Silvan/Sindar of Mirkwood like Thranduil ride deer. Razz Laughing


Also Rohirrim should be average in archers/pikemen and infantry, as though they had a very prominent horse culture, their other kinds of forces were not lacking, and Erkenbrand and the men of the Westfold even fought on foot in the books when they arrived at Helm's Deep (Eomer and horses replaced Erkenbrand and his soldiers in the film). 
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Fri 1 Aug - 02:56 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

Dwarves are one building less in castle anyway ( no shipyard and no stable, only forges added) so we'll see. However, is the dwarven charge in the movie adequate with the book ? They do ride ponies in first movie, but just for transportation.

About the buildings, here are the list of the basic buildings sor far :

#############CITY##############
- City walls : Gives fort level (was city wall quality before)
- Previous city wall giving fort level, levy size and tax income removed (potential loss of 2,7 Fort level, 22,5% levy size, 1,3 tax income (I plan to add terrain dependant buildings for tax income, like farms in plain, windmill in hills, mines in mountains -non dwarves-, watermills in rivers if possible, but I do not see why this kind of building would give tax income. Levy size and fort level could be restored with watchtowers and barracks)
- Previous city training grounds , (giving guarrison size and levy size) are split into watchtowers for garrison size and barracks for levy size, costs are halved for each building. They could be reunited if needed/asked
- City town militia gives light infantry and archers (named barracks before)
- City guard gives pikemen (unchanged)
- Market place unchanged
- Port unchanged
- Shipyard unchanged
- University lost so far, as it seems technological progress would be abandonned. Stilll can be added. Waiting décisions on the matter (by the way, all tech references were erased from fhe fils I am using)

#############CASTLE##############
Same for
- Walls (previous walls are lost)
- Keeps are split into watchtowers for garrison size and... keeps for levy size
- Militia barracks give light infantry and archers as before
- Training grounds give morale and reinforce rate as before
- Castle guards (previously barracks) gives heavy infantry and pikemen
- Stable unchanged
- Castle town unchanged
- Shipyard unchanged

Most of it is indeed about convenience, using the same base allows easier balancing, but with separates files and references we can still modify one group without altering the others. Immersion can also be reinforced with separate localisation files.

Unique and specific buildings can still (and will) be added but as we know what was taken from each group, we can check balancing issues (I am doing so with dwarves even now, for exemple, I nerfed tax income from forges and mines, but the income from mines is 5 max, while dwarves lost acce to ports giving a potential 16. So I might propose to increase tax income in mines).

The first part of my work was to "clean" basic files so I could rework easily on them.
Here they are by the way :
http://www.sendspace.com/file/m5lc2b
http://www.sendspace.com/file/w9fr1n
They are the common starting point, and what I have to do is to rename the buildings (with the chosen letter coding each group) and adding modifiers/prerequisite.
Once we will have decided the values of the modifiers, anyone will have the possibility to work on it without altering the work of others.


Last edited by Athoen on Fri 1 Aug - 18:00 (2014); edited 1 time in total
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Sat 2 Aug - 01:12 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

Polls about mounted units for dwarves and Rohirrim, please submit your vote Smile

http://www.moddb.com/mods/ck2-middle-earth-project/forum/thread/mounted-uni…
http://www.moddb.com/mods/ck2-middle-earth-project/forum/thread/mounted-uni…
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Redit
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PostPosted: Sat 2 Aug - 09:56 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

I'd prefer you debated among the team rather than making public polls, although in this case I agree with the majority in both cases, Rohirrim had foot troops and Dwarves had no cavalry
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Sat 2 Aug - 10:14 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

Redit wrote:
I'd prefer you debated among the team rather than making public polls, although in this case I agree with the majority in both cases, Rohirrim had foot troops and Dwarves had no cavalry


I will keep that in mind but the polls are only for knowing players opinions, not for decision (that comes only from the team of course).


Last edited by Athoen on Sat 2 Aug - 10:46 (2014); edited 1 time in total
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Lonhaldar
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PostPosted: Sat 2 Aug - 10:35 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

Yeah, and the pools should be wrong by the way :
The Third hobbit film shows roar-riders for dwarves something that NEVER was writen in the books, so some players will told you "Yeah, dwarves get cavalry", but are wrong  Rolling Eyes
As the first source for our work are the books, and not the movies, we should keep in mind this fact : Most of the players didn't looked at the books, and get some wrong ideas of the universe because of the movies ^^


So even if this mod is not for our personal glory, and is for the players, we should try to keep our original line : Books, always Very Happy
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Sat 2 Aug - 12:34 (2014)    Post subject: Culture buildings Reply with quote

New summary of building groups

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