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Redit
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Localisation: Angleterre

PostPosted: Tue 16 Dec - 23:38 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

I have been thinking about the mod and the main problems with it, as well as how things have changed in CK2 since two years ago when this mod started development.


I think the mod would benefit from being built from the ground up again, not entirely from scratch, as we have 2 years worth of work on it, but I think there are many things that can be improved and mistakes that can be corrected with hindsight.


Some main things:
- Completely restructure the religion system to be based on good/evil rather than race
-- Pros: Clear division between good and evil, Crusades, Religious Heads, Good/Evil/Other interfaces, less traits (No need for Guardian and Corrupted)
-- Cons: Marriage won't work as well (but it still doesn't with the Race system), less depth for cultures


I understand the problem with marriages and this isn't something I am going to change lightly, I want to hear your thoughts. However, many people would like to be able to marry whoever they like without them being slaughtered, the only problem is the AI, but we may be able to fix this some other way, or they may add something, who knows?


- Starting with a vanilla event folder, overhaul all vanilla events to work with our mod and have Middle-Earth localisations, as well as redo all MEP events to work correctly and with new systems (e.g. Way of Life) using new easier event scripting methods
-- Pros: More flavour, better immersion, fully utilise vanilla features
-- Cons: A lot of work


We never truly did this to begin with, and I appreciate everyone's great work on event scripting but we can do much better now. At the moment we have many conflicting events and mechanics implemented at different times by different people, give me your feedback on this...


- Use vanilla graphicalgfx
-- Pros: allows for distinct interface gfx, allows us to use dlc sprite units without a submod, allows use of vanilla facepack e.g. Norse
-- Cons: all new character portrait files must be reworked


- Redo cultures taking into account removal of race
-- Pros: clearer system of cultures split into Numenoreans, Elves, Dwarves, Middlemen, Ainur groups with distinctions like mori/calaquendi being by trait
-- Cons: more work


I think these changes are necessary to make the mod work and well, not just be 'stable enough not to crash' with many bugs and odd features if you see what I mean. It will also make the mod much more user friendly, and by adding every feature we have ever made to vanilla one by one we can see exactly what needs to be changed to make the game balanced, etc. In addition, I think most of our files need to be run through the Validator, this goes back to two years of events, character history, localisation, etc. which can be made much more efficient and make the mod run quicker and more stable. Since we started they have added Old Gods mechanics, Rajas mechanics, Era selection system, and now Way of Life major gameplay and event system changes. We can improve a lot of our current material with new features, such as the vanilla duel system.


This will be a lot of work, and I plan to do it when I have lots of free time in the Summer. I know this is a long while away, and I will start earlier but it will be very slow going. I plan to start with the simplest build possible, just the map, characters and traits. Once that is all working we can perfect the events. This will no doubt be hampered by more patches and DLCs along the road but hopefully we can incorporate or they'll move on to another game. 


Please let me know what you think about all this, it is all of our work that made this mod and you have as much of a right to it and the way it goes as anyone else. If you can think of any other major changes that can improve the mod then post, I know for example the recent discussions about prestige, gold and piety in Middle-earth would benefit the mod. We really should get round to adding a magic system Wink
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Dec - 23:38 (2014)    Post subject: Publicité

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 02:43 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

You goddamn mind ninja! I spent the whole day thinking about this!!! Mainly how to use religions, moral authority, crusades and holy sites...

I'll try to post my ideas tomorrow Very Happy
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 04:01 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

I think making the mod really stable is a necessity, but most of wht you are planning is probably above my skills

For cultures and buildings : I see no main problem in changing some culture and adding special buildings with trait
I just hope that Sauron will have a special culture outside from Maiar as it gives him special ties to all other ones (even not corrupted)

Will think about it more deeply later Smile


Last edited by Athoen on Wed 17 Dec - 08:34 (2014); edited 1 time in total
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 06:01 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

Redit wrote:
- Starting with a vanilla event folder, overhaul all vanilla events to work with our mod and have Middle-Earth localisations, as well as redo all MEP events to work correctly and with new systems (e.g. Way of Life) using new easier event scripting methods
-- Pros: More flavour, better immersion, fully utilise vanilla features
-- Cons: A lot of work


That should be our priority I think. I will have some free time at the end of the week so I am okay to start with the validator, but a I have already said, I am not good enough (yet) with Scripting to do it much on my own.


Redit wrote:
We really should get round to adding a magic system Wink

We could base our work (or inspire it) upon/from the magic system from Eleder King mod -by the way, does any one have some news about it ? It would be a shame if abandonned... :'( -
I never got into reading its script but I used it as a player. I can already make proposals on the conditions and kind of spells.
For those not knowing it, it is a decision spell system.
Piety would be a interresting way to simulate manapool

We might want to make separate thread for each major aspect of your proposal.
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 08:34 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

Redit wrote:

- Redo cultures taking into account removal of race
-- Pros: clearer system of cultures split into Numenoreans, Elves, Dwarves, Middlemen, Ainur groups with distinctions like mori/calaquendi being by trait
-- Cons: more work


I would like to have more details before agreeing with that part : I do not see why it is needed for now (except for the Melkor Group and the cases of Sauron and the nazgul), I do not think we have to change the cultures if we change the races/religions.
To put it simply : a lot of work (thinking about buildings) for what purpose ?
Buildings that are trait dependant are less stable than the one being culture dependant.
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 11:38 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

I just began to check my work on building with the validator... 188 errors... The kind I would not have found easily (not important ones yet...but still...)


well we should start with this it (about 40000 "errors" found in the mod)
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Chris93
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 13:56 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

Concerning religion changes i'm worried about marriages, those would be messed up and I don't like it very much...
Concerning cultures, if you want them to be races there's no need to do a "revolution". Culture_groups could be Races and cultures could represent the cultural differences within a race.
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 16:08 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

I like the current "religious" setup, but I do agree that the bad guys could use some tweaks...

Ideally, holy sites and moral authority would allow for a rather lore-friendly and "organic" gameplay, where CBs would be avaibale depending on former and the AI would play to achieve such places, as in lore. Therefore we won't need so many "railroading" events, decisions and the like...

I'm composing a list of Holy Sites for each culture/race/whatever that would reflect these lore priorities... Also, Moral Authority would measure the "strength" of each race. Low Dunedain moral authority would enable more powerful CBs to repel Evil while reducing the hope of the Elves that they could ally with Men to repel the Enemy (this could lead to a hastening of their Departure from Middle-Earth).

On ther hand, Evil guys would get better CBs with higher moral authority. Lorewise, Evil generally lays low until it is strong enough. In the Fall of Arnor scenario, for example, Orc moral authority would be rather low and they would focus on weak targets and getting stronger, let's they overextend and get wiped out by Dwarves and Elves. On the War of the Ring, where their moral authority would be higher, it would be "the Age of the Orcs", where they would try to subjugate vast swathes of MIddle-Earth with powerful CBs...

What do you guys think?
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Redit
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec - 16:39 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

I will make some new threads/areas for these proposals and I will categorise them by letters I think


edit: added new Revamping section on forum for discussion
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Redit
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec - 02:18 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

Sorry for problems with Forum, should be fixed now
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec - 06:12 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

It is for me
About the Validator, this is going to be a huge work , and we'll need to remove any reference to vanilla (cultures, religions).
I can't fix many things I do not understadn but I can try to remove vanilla ref so things are clearer with the validator.
I should probably focus on 1 category (building done, localisation -very partially- cleaned) but I would like an advice to know what is more urgent.

Some "errors" are not really ones but just a way of scripting unknown to the validator (checked with some buildings working perfectly fine) so I should not try to correct things I do not really understand.
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Redit
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec - 06:26 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

The main priorities are Province History, Title History and Characters imo, these are the key things that cause crashes and bugs
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec - 06:41 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

okay but as I have not worked much on those files, I will need some time to understand Smile

I started the trait, so I finish it (small category), then i'll probably see for characters, but I fear those 3 are linked to each other and we might affect each other's work
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Redit
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec - 06:42 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

I'll make a test build GitHub and we can edit and review each others changes on there?
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Fri 19 Dec - 06:47 (2014)    Post subject: New Direction Reply with quote

okay
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PostPosted: Today at 04:38 (2017)    Post subject: New Direction

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