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Redit
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec - 21:22 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

I like the dual meaning word play of Might Smile
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec - 21:22 (2014)    Post subject: Publicité

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec - 22:17 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

Might or Túrë? xD
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec - 22:23 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

I guess Might, unless we make Prestige also an Elvish word, but that will just confuse people I think, but we could have it in brackets with a good explanation tooltip
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec - 22:41 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

I might prefer just Might Cool
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PostPosted: Mon 29 Dec - 00:33 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

Razz  Sounds good
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6NGB
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec - 00:03 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

IMHO Spiritual Power is nice. Or probably willpower. To avoid extremely pious characters to cast a ton of spells, a cooldown system could be added.
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec - 01:55 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

6NGB wrote:

IMHO Spiritual Power is nice. Or probably willpower. To avoid extremely pious characters to cast a ton of spells, a cooldown system could be added.

Spells will be dependent on traits. And yes, most of them will likely have cooldowns, depending on what they do and how powerful they are...
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec - 02:00 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

Would you like to write some events Moridin?
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec - 02:22 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

I would, but I'm really struggling with the final exams...

I'll try to make a list of some spells and the like, with their "mana" costs relative to each other, so that you may comment or build something upon it while I try to survive my trials of pain...


P.S.: Quantum Electrodynamics is such a pain in the a**...
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6NGB
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Dec - 10:48 (2014)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

Moridin997 wrote:

P.S.: Quantum Electrodynamics is such a pain in the a**...


Agree. Quantum mechanics with it's differential equations and operators are added by Melkor to the Creation only to mock edain scholars. Be strong!
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6NGB
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PostPosted: Fri 2 Jan - 23:37 (2015)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

We should start from the appearances of magic in the books. Since immersion is the topmost goal, we should pay attention to what Tolkien mentioned. Only after that comes the CK part IMHO. It's useful to find even the slightest usages of magic and that's why someone with greater lore should complete a list like the one below, but let me start:

- Fireworks (mostly used to increase opinion during hobbit parties but can also serve as a weapon or siege equipment);
- Cursed blades (Morgul blades);
- Healing & herbalism; plants as sources of power;
- Bombadil's power over the Old forest, the willows and the barrow wights;
- The ability to speak with animals and plants;
- The gate of Moria and other warding spells that protect against damage and intrusion (the waters of Bruinen; the girdle of Melian; the walls of Orthanc);
- Blades indicating orkish presence (the Sting);
- Great swords inflicting terror in enemies and boosting morale of allies;
- Elven lembas and other elven devices like boats, cloaks, ropes (not a magic but a tech?);
- Galadriel's mirror; the Palantiri; the Eye; telepathy; foreseeing; prophecy;
- Curses, oaths, the power of words (e.g. the Dead army);
- Saruman's voice; will and mental damage through words (wormtongue and Theoden);
- Deflect arrows; move and break distant objects; telekinesis;
- The effects of the rings of power; exit the normal plane and enter the plane of shadows; give some bonuses but at the end subdue bearer's will and turn the bearer to a wraith.

Most of the usages of magic are through some artifact, so the magic system should complement and enrich the crafting one.

Magic in Middle Earth is both everywhere and almost nowhere. I'm afraid it won't be easy to implement this type of magic in CK but it's worth the effort.
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Moridin997
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PostPosted: Sat 3 Jan - 00:28 (2015)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

Since this will surely take a long time to implement, what we should do is decide what kind of magic is both the easiest and the most meaningful (gameplay-wise) to implement first...
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Athoen
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PostPosted: Sat 3 Jan - 06:23 (2015)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

some of these are already implemented by artifacts or buildings. I think we shouldn't double them.
IMO :

- Fireworks (mostly used to increase opinion during hobbit parties but can also serve as a weapon or siege equipment); For who ? Istari ? Bearer ot the rinf of Fire ? 2 effects mean 2 different spells I think
- Cursed blades (Morgul blades); Done by artifacts
- Healing & herbalism; plants as sources of power; Herbalism is not strictly magic, and some buildings already have bonuses for this, but I think this should be completed
- Bombadil's power over the Old forest, the willows and the barrow wights; Little interest to me and quite complex to simulate (many effects)
- The ability to speak with animals and plants; This could open many possibilities (summon troops, combat bonuses in forest...)
- The gate of Moria and other warding spells that protect against damage and intrusion (the waters of Bruinen; the girdle of Melian; the walls of Orthanc); Done with buildings , however and I think Elrond has some powers like that with his ring. Galadriel should also have some (by the way, isn't she supposed to be the most powerfull spellcaster among the elves at our times ?)
- Blades indicating orkish presence (the Sting); I see no point in game for this
- Great swords inflicting terror in enemies and boosting morale of allies; This power rather comes from the creatures and not from the blades (nazguls, balrog, dragons...Certainly Sauron too)
- Elven lembas and other elven devices like boats, cloaks, ropes (not a magic but a tech?); We are suppressing tech, but this could be more crafted artifacts.
- Galadriel's mirror; the Palantiri; the Eye; telepathy; foreseeing; prophecy; Already existing arteficts, with a special power for communicating with palantiri (not quite functionnal however). Foreseeing and prophesy can hardly be simulated exepct with some combat bonus IMO
- Curses, oaths, the power of words (e.g. the Dead army); The dead army is non cannon I think (doesn't exist in the books, only in the movie). Curses should be added but with care Smile
- Saruman's voice; will and mental damage through words (wormtongue and Theoden); This could use the new targetting system in WoL
- Deflect arrows; move and break distant objects; telekinesis;
- The effects of the rings of power; exit the normal plane and enter the plane of shadows; give some bonuses but at the end subdue bearer's will and turn the bearer to a wraith.This is a personnal effect that doesn't fit in the game speed iMO, but I like the idea of adding special powers to the one ring with removing one point in any attribute, allowing powerfull uses before becoming a wraith (what is being a wraith except culture/religion change and becoming a vassal of sauron ?)

I hope this doesn't sound overly criticical Wink
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6NGB
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PostPosted: Sat 3 Jan - 09:36 (2015)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

It definitely isn't overly critical Smile . Besides, "critical" is not a bad thing. The point of this list is to provide a basis of a discussion. Something to brainstorm upon.

Most of these things are not "strategy game"-friendly. Some may be events, some may fit in the dueling system, others in the crafting. Some may be decisions. Some are already implemented, others are not worth to be implemented or simply cannot (e.g. what is the place of self attaching and detaching rope in a strategic gameplay after all). I don't think the mod needs some big magic "system" with power levels, magic aspects and schools (like enchanter lvl. 47 with expert Life and Chaos magic) and that "good ol' mana stuff which is present in all fantasy games and which allows you to throw fireballs on your enemies". Just some events, decisions, artifacts IMO.

Bombadil's powers are generally unknown, but he is present as a character so he needs some attention. Right now he's just a petty feudal ruler who can be dowed and conquered. Too generic for me. Probably on attacking him some bad "magical" events should fire on the attacker causing loss of manpower and morale. These events should be Bombadil-specific, not a "generally available magic" and that is probably all that can be done with him.

The army of the Dead is present in the book though not as in the movie. Aragorn uses them to take the ships of the Umbar corsairs and releases them after that and they don't come to Minas Tirith. IDK how can such a thing become a part of the gameplay. There is the vassal-liege contract already which is something like oath. An oath is probably a form of alliance inflicting greater damage (a curse) if broken. An oath could also be an ambition.
On curses: there are tons of cursed charcters (Isildur, Feanor, Turin) so we need them IMO, but they could become OP easily. Let say that a powerful character can curse, curses should not be available to lesser characters in terms of magical abilities. A curse should damage stats, vassal opinion, inflict negative traits like stressed or ill and other bad stuff but not death directly. While one curse is active (it's target is still alive or is not lifted by the caster) the caster should not be able to target someone else with a curse. Something like the plot to kill, but doing damage over time, not instantly.

And now a more gameplay-wise list to reflect upon:
- Healing:
 -- on character level: remove negative traits;
 -- province & army level: increase reinforcement speed;
- Character improvements:
 -- increase stats temporarily;
 -- increase good event chance (like easier to become a craftsman);
- Summoning & nature lore:
 -- spawn temporary event troops (ents & trees, wargs);
 -- defense with the power of nature (waters, forests). see Warding & Defense below;
- Telepathy & Mind control:
 -- inflict morale/organization damage;
 -- improve diplomacy & opinion;
 -- damage rival opinion;
- Curses:
 -- inflict negative traits, damage stats;
 -- morale/organization damage;
 -- on province level: damage to economy (harsh winter, spread disease...);
- Blessings (?) -- much like curses but inverted;
- Warding & Defense:
 -- defense against plots and intrigue;
 -- increased enemy attrition, manpower damage, morale damage;
- Combat & Duel:
 -- cool event tricks like Moridins duel above: Gandalf (blue corner, grey pants) vs The Witch King (red corner, red pants);
 -- artifacts must be used here.
- Oaths (?)

PS. Again it became both lengthy and incomplete. My apologies... Sad
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PostPosted: Sat 3 Jan - 18:48 (2015)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system Reply with quote

All good ideas, all great ideas!


Oaths and Curses I particularly like


We could perhaps remove casus belli on tom bombadil also


I think we could include Elvish glowing blades in battle/scouting events, where having one when attacked by Orcs would give a big advantage


Healing should be usable on other characters and in specific events like with Frodo getting stabbed, perhaps any character inflicted by a morgul curse e.g. in a battle duel that is randomly generated could gain an ambition to find a healer or die


We need to improve depth of crafting and all citizen traits, so you can more clearly gain and lose levels, and do various things with them, and be able to gift items to other characters/players


Warding and Defense can be improved a lot


The duels are the most important to me, as most armies are led directly by rulers in LotR, and so very deep one on one combat is a big part of immersion and epicness for players


We should divide up these things more clearly, focus on one or two for a while, there are too many here Smile
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PostPosted: Today at 09:39 (2017)    Post subject: Ideas for spell system

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