Ideas for spell system

Lonhaldar

I agree to keep all the seduction things out of the mod !

For the duels, i can help you to make them, as i added these ones some times ago (and they needs to be reworked a little). It could be quite simple to do, and we can discuss about the triggers (decision? random event? triggered by previous actions like wars? ...)

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6NGB

I committed the files. Some of them were erroneously committed from my job account "marinDO". I won't be using it anymore in this repo, I promise. For now, read it as "6NGB", please.

PLZ NOTE: The events/MEP_crafts.txt file references a missing localization key "EVTOPTAcraft.22". It's the button for the "no good gems found" event (gotta be stg like "Oh no!"). Since the locale of my machine (bulgarian cyrillic) conflicts with the French localization and Tolkien's names (accents and circumflexes may get broken) I'd ask someone else to add it to the localization/events_crafts.csv file and commit. Also please check the localization files I've commited. They miss French and a better wording for English is required. Thanks Smile

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On Duels:
I think it's the best not to use WoL duels (DLC) and to work with the DUEL_* files as they are in the 0.4.1b. We still can add a targteded_decision for an entry point of the DUEL engine.

Lonhaldar

One thing about the "magical crafts" and "caster" traits :
We're agree that in middle-Earth, there's no real magicians? Only the Istari, but they're mostly semi-gods than wizards.
The "magical artefacts" of elves for exemple are mostly done with an ancient knowledge than with magic, at least not as we know the magic today (no Merlin or David Copperfield here)
It's the same for some things, like healing : the heal is not a magic power, but only an old knowledge given by the Valar to the Elves at first. Wink

By the way, i just don't want to see a lot of humans sorcerers or elvish wizards, only some powerful characters can have a mighty power : The Ainur (Valar/Maiar/Istari and maybe Balrogs/Dragons/Eagles but not really), the Wights (because they're between two worlds, not really a magical power), and some elves with powerful blood (Maiar blood for exemple, like Elrond, or elves who have seen the lights of the Trees like Galadriel or Glorfindel). Nobody else can have any real power, or only because he holds some artefacts of old, but the knowledge is lost to build new ones normally.

Even the Strong Numenoreans didn't have any magical powers, they lived long lives, they were strong and glorious, they holded some strongs knowledges in healing or crafting, but they didn't had any real powers.

So, i beg you, don't create duels with fire balls, wizards in any races, and magical wars.

For crafting, i've got a suggestion :
- if a Maiar/Istari want to craft a powerful object, he can, but will have to put some own strength in it. Sauron, for exemple, when he created the One, linked his own power to it to make the ring powerful. Feänor has put most of his energy in the Silmarils. It's the same for most of the powerful artefacts : the fate of the creators are linked to their powerful creations.

How can we manage to simulate it in the mod?
- When creating a powerful jewel/sword/artefact, you can remove some stats of the creator (stewardship, learning, martial, ...) and add back these stats directly in the object. So, if the character loses (because the object was destroyed/lost/robbed) the object one day, he'll really loose a part of his power.

That's the better way to simulate the magical thing, Imho!

Redit

I agree Lon, most Elves are thousands of years old so they all have some sort of caster trait now, when it should just be 5-6 characters

6NGB

The advancement of the caster trait per 1000 years of age is a debug feature. I shouldn't have committed it, sorry. I took the idea from a recetrait event which distributes racial traits after startup. This is just an initial commit, think of it as a basis for future improvements.

I like the idea of binding powers to artifacts. So instead of giving a flat +3 bonus, let's give 5 but take 2 (for example). We have to think of events to lose an enchanted artifact (like some chance in battle when wounded or on a job when failed).

On magic + combat -- besides morale boost/damage I cannot think of something lore-ish. But this is kinda martial skill, not a magic...

Lonhaldar

Well there's no really magical skills in combat i think, only martial and traits should be used. Maybe some characters with specific traits/objects can have some things more (for exemple, the light from the Gandalf's Staff can help him to flee a duel, or some swords can have an effect on the reactions of the ennemies). But Dwarven Rings, enchanted jewels or things like this shouldn't be of any help in battle!
If you want to, we can work on changing the duel engine to make him more immersive, with several steps, things like this!

And yeah, for the fact of binding powers to artifacts, that was exactly what i wanted to means Smile

Once again, all this stuff will needs a lot of work, and i can help you to make it if you want !

6NGB

I'm starting to think that we should discard the "magic" things but add some more depth (as upgrades to existing items and/or some new item) to the crafting system. As of now the magician trait looks promising to the user, but actually is just a crafting upgrade. For extra things: since we are not determined about what to add as "magic", then probably no "magic" is needed after all.

Imagine that a char is immortal and was in Eregion (or even Gondolin) when the great rings & swords were forged. Though he might not knew at this time how to create such a thing, he had several millenia to learn it even without being taught but only by experimenting alone. So an immortal should be able to become something more than a regular, mortal blacksmith and to introduce some new powerful artifacts IMO. This could be done by upgrading artifacts binding his powers to them.

Lonhaldar

Yeah, that sounds good. For me, you're right, no magic is needed, but we can improve some actual things by using "ancient knowledge". After, they won't be able to create major powerful objects, as even Saruman -a mighty maia of Aulë- failed to create a Ring of Power during Third Age, but they should be able to create some objects and give to them a part of their "soul"/power. Should be an interesting feature if we give to these objects some depths!

I believe that for now, we should focus on giving more depths to the powerful artefacts already existing (rings, swords, staffs, ...) before to add new ones, what do you think?

6NGB

Here is what I plan to do:

1. I'll reduce the caster traits to a single trait. For now I'll call it "ancient". It won't be "upgradeable" or attainable via an event. It has to be "hard-coded" in some characters. Some candidates are: Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron;
2. This trait would allow a crafted item to be improved by binding it to the crafter. The enchant events will be adapted to that;
3. Magic events, cooldown etc will be removed;
4. Dwarvish upgrades will be removed;

After that I'd suggest we leave magic & crafting unless someone has a cool idea. Any thoughts?

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