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Redit
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PostPosted: Mon 1 Apr - 16:49 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Not a bug as such, just the topo isn't finalised yet, there won't be a falls at all in the final due to the fact all water has to be level except for rivers


Edit: There are many other problems with the map I am aware of, I built them all  Laughing
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PostPosted: Mon 1 Apr - 16:49 (2013)    Post subject: Publicité

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
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Nukumnehtar
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PostPosted: Wed 3 Apr - 20:56 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Just wondering if you will be changing Dunlostir's county level code name to Grimslade, or just its localisation for rohirrim? Also Grimslade (Dunlostir) should be capital for West Emnet duchy.

b_marchdale and b_adorndale should also switch provinces, since the Adorn river currently does not touch the province named Adorndale.

Also was wondering what short of localisation we will be going with for duchy, county and barony level titles for the rohirrim: Aldor (duchy), Reeve (county) like in Lord of the Rings online; or would keeping the saxon localisation from vanilla be better? I personally would prefer using vanilla's saxon title for Earl (count level), as it would be truer to Tolkien's vision of the Rohirrim as a saxon parallel. As for barony level perhaps we could use Reeve. As for duchy, I'm not very fond of using Aldor, since it was a proper name of one of Rohan's kings. Perhaps Lord would work for duchy level, as in, Lord of the Eastfold, Lord of the West Emnet, etc., which would fit with the books.
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Morgothic
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PostPosted: Wed 3 Apr - 21:53 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

I always thought 'Lord' was just Tolkien's translation of whatever it would be in the words of the Rohirrim, as a sort of placeholder for a form of noble. Personally I doubt that in Rohirric they would be known as 'Lords'. Check the Old English (Pre-Viking) titles? (I know them but not off the top of my head.)
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PostPosted: Thu 4 Apr - 02:33 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Well we would thus have to change King to cyning then, and lord is gumdryhten. I think words like king or lord don't need to be rendered into old english though. And words such as Earl and Reeve are relatively simplified forms, and easy to say or look at.
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PostPosted: Thu 4 Apr - 02:42 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Already changed to Grimslade in my latest version, the capitals are defined in landed but autogen randomly without histories

The naming problem is one present also present in Gondor and everywhere else really (shire), i have sort of opted for a Lord to be a Duke in Gondor, as in Lord of Emyn Arnen, some kingdoms are Principalities with princes, others are not, Count does not seem right for a county though, nor does baron for castle. 


I am happy to have Earls, Lords and the King for Rohan, barons need a name though, warden perhaps, or a translation of chief
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PostPosted: Thu 4 Apr - 04:51 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Well I knew you had changed grimslade, but I was wondering if you had changed Everything about it: ie would the landed title now be c/b_grimslade or would it still be c/b_dunlostir?

Lotro uses the title Reeve for settlement rulers in Rohan, which would correspond roughly to a barony title; but reeve might actually be more suited to a city leader position. Héafod means leader or chief which might be best for castle/fort type holdings.

On second thought, the use of Aldor in place of duke might actually be useful after more examination: ealdor [] 1. m (-es/-as) elder, parent, head of a family; author, source; pl ancestors; civil or religious authority, an elder, chief, governor, leader, master, lord, prince, king; source; a primitive, that from which something is derived; [eald]; 2. n (-es/-) (f?) 2 life, the vital parts of the body; 2 age, old age; eternity

Another alternative for duchy level could be Thegn, my personal favorite, as it would also pair up nicely with the Thain in the Shire. As to the shire ruler names: Thain for king level (ie Thain was over entire shire), Mayor (Mayor of Michel Delving at duchy level) for city level, First Shirriff and Shirriffs maybe for a replaced religion settlements, Warden for duchy level, Master for duchy level stoors (Buckland), Master for fort-type barony holding, probably county as well.

And king is close enough to cyning to leave it in its modern rendering.
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PostPosted: Thu 4 Apr - 14:43 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Yeah the Shire was 'ruled' by a Thain. Earl is not so straight forward as it is simply an Old English variant of Jarl, after the Danish took control, thus not being entirely suiting due to its Scandinavian routes, but then this is being very attentive to detail.
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PostPosted: Thu 4 Apr - 20:59 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Actually Earl is fully anglo-saxon, while it is akin to jarl it originated in the Saxon kingdoms before the vikings invaded.
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PostPosted: Fri 5 Apr - 13:45 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

"According to Procopius, the Heruli, after having raided the European continent for several generations, returned to Scandinavia in 512 AD as a result of military defeats. As their old territory was now occupied by the Danes, they settled next to the Geats in present-day Sweden. While the Proto-Norse word for this mysterious tribe may have been erilaz, which is etymologically near "jarl" and "earl", and it has often been suggested they introduced the runes in Scandinavia, no elaborate theory exists to explain how the word came to be used as a title. Arguably, their knowledge in interpreting runes also meant they were gifted in martial arts and, as they gradually integrated,eril or jarl instead came to signify the rank of a leader."


Well, this is what Wikipedia says, so it does indeed seem Saxon in use, taken with them from their homeland when they settled in England.  I just remember it only becoming a common title (at the level of duke) after the danes invaded, and before that there were other names, with nobles known as Thegns (Thanes) and those who were landed (in terms of Shires, being of equal rank to Counts and Dukes) being called Ealdormen. However, during Cnut's invasions all (or almost all) of the Ealdormen (and Thegns) were slain, and to fill the gap, Cnut inserted Scandinavian nobles instead, known as Jarls in their homeland, and as Earls in the Anglo-Saxon tongue. 
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PostPosted: Fri 5 Apr - 15:36 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Ealdormen and Earl have the same etymological roots.
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PostPosted: Fri 5 Apr - 15:59 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Well, I believe that Ealdorman means Elder man, and Earl is a corruption of Jarl. The main fact is that Earl was not used as a title in Anglo-Saxon society until the Vikings invaded.
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PostPosted: Fri 5 Apr - 16:02 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

I have analyzed pre-viking Anglo-saxon documents myself in Medieval History courses and I can indeed tell you that Earl was definitely in use before hand. Wikipedia does not always have the entire picture for everything.
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PostPosted: Fri 5 Apr - 16:04 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Hmm, according to my book (Regarding the Norman conquest) it only came into wide use (not to say that it was not in use before) after the Ealdormen were replaced by Scandinavian Jarls post Cnut invasion.
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PostPosted: Fri 5 Apr - 16:07 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Yes, that is true, Ealdormen was more common used than Earl, but for our purposes in Rohan Ealdor would be rendered Aldor, which is also a personal name, allowing for the chance of Aldor Aldor which would just look weird. For our purposes Earl would be the best usage.
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PostPosted: Fri 5 Apr - 16:11 (2013)    Post subject: Map Progress Reply with quote

Aldorman might work better? Even if it is still an honorary title in the UK?
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PostPosted: Today at 09:40 (2017)    Post subject: Map Progress

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